This post is the response to a writing prompt asking to write about something that upsets you.
What upsets me? I get upset when I see others struggling with expectations. I say I started my website because I was tired of seeing well-educated women defeated by their kitchen pantries. But the reality is I felt defeated.
I still do sometimes.
Shame and Empowerment Entertwined by Angela England
We get this message somehow that we should have it all together. All the time. But we don’t. And that’s the reality of life.
What we’ve done in our culture is told women they don’t have to be domestic. But then we shame them for not having those skills.
How can we blame ourselves for not knowing something we were never taught? (Click to Tweet) How can we blame others for not knowing either? And not just domesticity — a lot of other areas.
We say they don’t need to have children. Husband’s optional. And we criticize work choices, family sizes, and lack (or abundance) of procreation.
I know I have friends who aren’t married and don’t have children and don’t want any. Their choice. Those friends are as heavily criticized for their decision to have none as I am for my decision to have five. Both maligned for not having the average number of children.
Sometimes criticized quietly, but sometimes overtly.
And, can I be honest for a second? I HATE IT.
I hate when someone thinks it’s OK to say, “Oh my God I don’t see how you could handle it!” in front of my children. I hate that my babies are hearing the message “You are trouble. You are a hassle. You are unwanted.” And it’s every time we leave the house together.
Turn it around to see the insanity. If I said to that woman, “Oh my God, I don’t see how your husband handles being married to you,” it would (rightfully) be considered an insult. Thought rude of me to say. But when the phrase is turned against innocent children whose sense of worth is still forming, I’m supposed to react like it’s a joke.
I’m supposed to laugh it away.
It’s not right. And thinking so turns me into a “reactive person” who “can’t take a joke.” Or to some people, “a bitch.” And that isn’t fair.
How can I not respond in defense of my children? I usually say, “Actually, I consider them all a huge blessing and wouldn’t trade what I have for the world.”
But even saying those words sweetly have turned some people against me. I see their faces grow hard because I wouldn’t laugh with them. Because I wouldn’t admit that I wish I didn’t have so many kids.
Do they consider my choices a judgment on theirs? How could my uterus try, sentence, and convict someone else’s? That doesn’t even make sense. But why else would my love for my children seem an insult to them?
I hate that women are too quick to put down.
We put ourselves down. And as a result, we put down others to lift ourselves up.
I’ve noticed some people cling to a desire to see only masks. To be, in a sense, lied to. I’m realizing as my audience grows that there are some who do not want to see real life. The façade’s never been my thing, though. (Click to Tweet)
I’ve never been able to pull off the perfect mask. Maybe that’s why I was a better theatre director than actor? I don’t know.
All I know is that I’ve lived my entire life willing to say, “I am not good at this.” Comfortable with admitting where I still need to grow. Sharing, “This is really hard for me right now.” Some people don’t like to hear that.
But some people do.
I remember getting an email the first month after I launched Untrained Housewife. She had read the About page and wrote me saying, “I laughed, and then I cried. I just sat at my computer and wept in freedom when I realized I am not the only one who feels this way. Thank you so much – Now I know I’m not alone.”
She too has had moments of not-togetherness-having. Now at least she has encouragement that those messy moments can weave together into magic memories for her kids. Thriving for her family. Learning and journey-embracing together.
Have you ever been shamed for anything? For me it was my larger-than-average family but I know these things look unique to each person. Have you experienced a situation like this in your life?
I’m not sure if I’ve ever said it out loud to my sister-in-law, but she has four kids and I constantly wonder how she’s able to do everything she does. If I have said it aloud to her, it’s been in the tone of true awe and admiration and never in the spirit of “your kids are a real burden, I’m not sure how you make it through your days.” I know I’ve not meant it offensively!
I think there’s definitely a difference in tone between spite and appreciation! That just happens to be MY example but I have friends with ZERO children who could give similar examples from their own lives. ((hugs))
I so know what you mean! I have one, by choice, and I’ve received some pretty inappropriate comments. I almost feel like responding that I have fertility problems, which isn’t true, but that would shut them up. I too have friends with none and friends with four or five, and the judgement they receive is obnoxious.
It’s interesting to me how universal this experience is even with such drastically different situations. Not just kids – just a bunch of different things – school homeschool, hospital home, etc. Anything.
I struggle with this working from home. It’s not quite the same as SAH *or* WOH, and I’ve felt a bit of ick from both sides at times. I’m not sure how much of this was my own hyper critique of my own self or how much was them, but either way, the whole culture of shaming ourselves and others has to be broken.
Even when it’s not out and out shaming the other person, I think there can be an element of *self*-deprecation when we “supermom” others…when we put them on a pedestal that they are doing something so much MORE than we are (and in effect, that we are doing less than they are), when really they are just making it like we are.
I haven’t shown it to you yet but I just wrote a post – very brief but poignant – called Complements without Comparison which touches on this concept a lot too.
You are just a goldmine these days! Not sure we could be more on the same wave length. Really, not sure if it’s our generation or what, but we seem to struggle giving or receiving compliments without putting ourselves down.
There is a confidence missing, as a culture (I think), that would allow us to be alongside each other on our journeys rather than stepping over or flopping under each other.
Yeah that. Probably said more eloquently then what’s currently scrawled in my red journal but it’ll get there. 🙂
First off…*HUGS*!!! You’re a bad ass. Part of being a bad ass is being aware that you are not always at your best and THAT is ok. Awareness is freedom.
I’ve experienced situations like yours – actually, I get them all the time still. Mine are based on culture, education, choice of husband, choice of work…I get it from so many different directions!
I’m judged for choosing to marry and start a family in my early twenties and not hitting the career path right out of the college gates – honestly, I worked so hard through college building my resume to get a great job and get into law school that I was completely burnt out. An aunt of mine withheld my college graduation present (she was a hard core women’s and civil rights activist in the 60s that chose to not have children and went as far as to get her tubes tied at the age of 21). She had bought me a beautiful leather briefcase that I was to use during job interviews and then law school…I married my husband a year before I graduated college and found out I was pregnant a week after I graduated…she was PISSED. She was even more upset that I was going to be a “pissed off domestic military wife having to eat the sh** that the military shoved down our throats.”….We havn’t spoken since my oldest son was born…and I never got my present. I never went to law school either, but I am SO glad I didn’t. I wanted to be married. I wanted to be a mom. I didn’t want to wait.
Then add all the cultural stuff – my kids don’t speak Spanish, they’re not baptized Catholic.
My favorite has to be what my childhood friends say. “we NEVER thought YOU of ALL people would ever get married and have kids so young. You were always so career driven!”.e…That always felt like…why would anyone marry the hard ass and breed with her? She might eat her young! 😀
Stay strong Ang. Keep doing what you’re doing. Fall apart when you need to. Just never forget to put yourself back together. <3
Have you read my post on angengland.com about living the checkbox life? I think it will resonate with your story as well http://www.angengland.com/the-myth-of-the-checkbox-life-how-to-fail-imperfectly-to-succeed-powerfully/
Of course this post didn’t even TOUCH of my bi-racial children and the whole other set of ignorance that’s brought with it. *sigh* But you already know some of those stories. Thank you for sharing your story with me – I think you’re an excellent mom and I’m so blessed to have you as a friend.
Laptops are better than briefcases any day! 😉
<><
LOVE.
Related to much of this post, but want to add to this:
“I hate when someone thinks it’s OK to say, “Oh my God I don’t see how you could handle it!” in front of my children.”
Reminds me of when I was pregnant with my daughter and people would say, right in front of my little boy, “Oh you MUST be hoping for a girl this time! Every woman wants a daughter!”
“No,” I’d say, “I’d be thrilled with another boy. I love being his mom; if I could clone him I would.”
Great example! Yes! What message could that send to your son? “Your mom doesn’t want you…she wishes you were a girl.” That’s exactly the kind of thing that we don’t think about sometimes.
I’m glad I’m not the only one who thinks like this. I have 3 boys and then a girl (then another boy and 7 years later a girl). When my first daughter was born people were overly excited for us. It was like our dream came true. It was crazy. Don’t get me wrong I love her with all my heart, just like I do my boys. When I was pregnant with my 6th child people would ask my daughter if she was hoping for a girl. I was so proud of her when she said, it doesn’t matter, the baby gets to be in my room either way…she was 10. She gets it, even at a young age.
Angi that’s GREAT. It speaks a lot to what you’re teaching your kids.
I had 5 children and heard comments: “Don’t you know where they come from?”, “Again?”, “I don’t know how you can stand it!” etc. etc. etc. I am 74 years old and the attitude toward a large family was bad when mine was growing. Also, the push toward the glass ceiling was just beginning but I wasn’t part of it. I was to be “a perfect wife,” “a perfect mother,” and “a perfect lady.” Friend, that isn’t easy.
I baked. I cleaned (I mean REALLY cleaned), I sewed all of our clothes (coats, suits for myself, dresses, boys pants, boys shirts). I remade, remodeled, refurbished hand-me-downs. I did my own hair – and folks we didn’t let a hair be out of place. I oversaw homework, piano practice (one piano, 3 taking lessons). I served nutritious meals.
I was not a “trained housewife” either. I had never baby-sat, changed a diaper, cooked a meal, or done any real housework. I did my “on the job training” and survived and did a pretty good job of it.
I felt stress. Deep down stress. I felt isolated. I felt unloved and unappreciated. But I also felt pride in my accomplishments and my family.
Vera – Thank you so much for sharing your story! Yes I guess in our day it’s “ok” for women to give up when they feel that stress – but most of us don’t want to. We want to push through, we want to learn, and we want to feel the pride in our accomplishments and in building those moments with our kids.
“I felt stress. Deep down stress. I felt isolated. I felt unloved and unappreciated.” That makes me just weep. And it reconfirms why this website (and other communities like it) are so important. I haven’t had that same sense of deep isolation because I have developed amazing friends and get to hear from others like you.
Thank you for sharing with us. I appreciate you so much. 🙂
Angela <><
Excellent article! I have a friend who has four, going on five girls. I’ve asked her how she does it,but it’s more of “I’m in awe of you” tone. I’m seriously amazed that she manages to run a tight ship whereas I have one and I can’t keep up. But we’re two different people. I’d like to add as a mother of one, by choice, that I’ve been called selfish for not having more kids. People will tell my son that he needs brothers and sisters and I’m standing right there. I think it’s supposed to “shame” me but it just ticks me off. I’m told I’m depriving him of family and socialization. I am told I’m being reactive or “bitchy” when I defend myself,too. Also, I get told “You’re so lucky to have one, even though he’s on the autism spectrum.” Or “Well, I see why you didn’t have more because one kid on the spectrum equals six kids.” What does does any of that mean, I have to ask myself constantly. I’ve come to the conclusion that people will say ignorant things whether you have twenty kids or just one. I’ve started shutting people down when they go down the “You’re being selfish” road. It’s not worth what energy I have to acknowledge those people.In actuality, since I was a little girl, I said I was going to have one and it was going to be a boy, haha. My wish came true and I’m fine with that. We did at one point consider having another but due to my health it’s not possible. But I don’t tell people that because I don’t have to justify myself and my illness happened before we thought about having another. To you and all of the other moms that have read/replied to this, I say “Cheers” to whatever decisions you make in having children.
It’s so hard when people say hurtful things and they don’t know your story.
Agreed – I have people tell me “wow your hands are full!” and “three?! You have three?! I don’t know how you do that!” (I wanted to tell her, no, I left the rest at home…and what will they say if we have 4, or 5 or 6??) After we found out our third was going to be a boy people constantly said “wow, your husband must be sooo excited!!” and “I’m so excited for you! a boy is so much fun!” Um yes, sometimes my hands are full and yes we are excited to be having a boy – because we’re excited to be having a BABY! And ALL children are fun, not just boys!
It’s like people don’t hear themselves talking.
I agree – sometimes people say things and I think they must not realize how they are coming across.
I can point to so many examples of this not only in my life, but in the lives of friends and family far and wide who receive judgement of their choices. Whether it’s our careers, number of children (if any), spouse or partner, even hobbies I feel like women are damned if we do, and damned if we don’t and often damned for both!
I am grateful I came of age in the time when I did, and that I have always been a bit sassy when it comes to owning my choices. I still feel the pressure to do things ‘right’ or be ‘perfect’ but I don’t struggle with that part which can be both a blessing and a curse. 😉
Thank you for sharing, I can really relate to every word.
“I feel like women are damned if we do, and damned if we don’t and often damned for both!” EXACTLY. No matter what we do we are shamed and maligned by others. Usually other women which is the very worst.
“I still feel the pressure to do things ‘right’ or be ‘perfect’ but I don’t struggle with that part which can be both a blessing and a curse. ;)”
You and me both, Sister!
I have had people say are they all yours,I have five, and were they planned. Also my two youngest look like twins and people always say to me “they must be a hand full.” I just smile back and say to them “I enjoy every minute .” My kids dr. said to me when I was pregnant with number 4 “you do know how babies are made?”
If I had a dollar…..
I think when something like this happens, it’s best to have a response either ready or know where the conversation is going like one of the commenters suggested. For instance when someone says:
“I don’t know how you manage with 5 kids” you could say, “I don’t know how people do it without 5 kids, ha ha”
The other thing to remember here is that these comments really have nothing to do with you, everything someone else says is about them, about how they feel, how overwhelmed they think they would be, etc. What they are really saying is “I don’t think I could do it like you do” or “I don’t think I could handle it” or “For me 5 kids would be too much” “That idea is scary”
When someone says to me “I could never homeschool my kids, I need that break everyday” or “I can’t homeschool, it’s too much work” I try to remember that 1: it is a lot of work, sometimes I do wish I had a break, but, that I’d never give it up for the world. I just say “It isn’t for everyone, I’m sure you do things I would think would be impossible for me, but for us it’s worth it”
I think as humans we instinctively judge someone else, not because we honestly feel like we are better, but because we couldn’t see ourselves doing the same things. I try to teach the kids that we are all different and no one can be us, and sometimes people just say dumb things because they don’t know what else to do. Forgive them and let it go, they are battling their own issues.
Yes I have my stock response that I mentioned in the article and usually people just smile and let it go at that. But every so often I see them harden and turn cold inside and it makes me sad.
It seems like no matter what we do, by virtue of our choices, we are perceived as condemning those who do not choose the same road we do. That’s crazy. Thank you for addressing this!
“It seems like no matter what we do, by virtue of our choices, we are perceived as condemning those who do not choose the same road we do. ”
Brilliant summary, Jo-Lynne…that’s the feeling exactly! I can’t tell you how many people who find out that I homeschool begin immediately justifying all the reasons why the cannot homeschool. I had to stop a friend one day and say – It’s ok that you send your kids to public school you know. That IS ok. You don’t have to explain or defend your choices – just accept them.
One year when all three of my children were in elementary school I was shocked to find that our school was requiring each child to have three pairs of shoes (outdoor, classroom and gym shoes). I remember saying, “My goodness that’s nine pairs of shoes every few months at the rate the children are growing!” and being told, “That’s why we only had one child”. My children are all grown now but the self-righteousness of that comment still stings.
Lol! As if elementary school schools we on their mind when they decided to have kids or not. Too funny.
Amazing how quick they grow isn’t it? Two years we bought my son shoes for Christms as he needed a new pair. End of Feb he complained about his feet hurting and I was like “they do not- we just got you new shoes let me see…” His toe was pushing out the end of the shoes already!
We went to the store and he was TWO SIZES BIGGER….not the next size, the size after that. I felt SO bad poor guy…
In our culture, no matter what women do, *someone* is not going to like it, be offended, try to silence them. I could write a ream of how this happens, from all sides. All I can hope is that others who read it will stop and think twice before ANY time they want to say something against a woman and ask themselves why. Ask if they would do the same if it were someone male saying or doing the same.
“All I can hope is that others who read it will stop and think twice before ANY time they want to say something against a woman and ask themselves why. ”
Thank you – yes that is my hope as well in writing this post. That’s what the community of people here is all about and I’m so encouraged by the responses and comments I’m reading here.
There’s another side to rude comments to those who have chosen a large family.
My daughter is unable to have children. She gets, “Your biological clock is running out.” “How much longer are you going to wait?” etc. etc.
She doesn’t want to have to explain that she has a biological problem that prevents her from having children. It hurts too much.
In this pro-choice world, there seems to be only one choice — have 1.8 children.
the feels…
If one of you could please write about this as a step parent who has to deal with the bio parent being this way to the kid, I’d be ever so grateful. I personally waited until after collage and getting my head and life stable before I started dating and finding someone to start a family with. all my cousins and siblings chastised me about not having kids, how I wouldn’t understand how richly blessed they were. and its soooo hard to come back at them and say that i wouldn’t wish their troubles and lack of self and stability on myself. waiting until my 30’s to date and think about marriage and kids wasnt a choice I made lightly, it was one I made because I thought of the kids first, I didnt want the husband and the kids until I was sure I could give them the best of myself. and for that, I get crap from people, how there must be something wrong with me. now as a step-parent I have to deal with the snide remarks about that and then the digs into the childs self-esteem from the biomom and previous step-mom. and let me tell you the tremendous battle there is being a parent the first time and having to rebuild the self-esteem and emotional stability of a child after 10 years of verbal and emotional abuse from previous mother figures… all without ever letting myself say something bad about them in front of the kid. plus deal with the remarks about my childless state in my 30’s.
Oh my goodness. I’m so glad you told me about this post yesterday 🙂 This is fabulous. I don’t have a larger than average family, but I am a younger than average mom, and I hear about it all the time. I hear about it when my kids aren’t smiling enough and some one feels to point out how “grumpy” they look (Like you wouldn’t be grumpy after a few hours in the grocery store???)
I hate that I can’t share my experiences without needing the disclaimer of “ITS OKAY IF YOUR CHOICES ARE DIFFERENT THAN MINE”. We really make it harder on ourselves. But that’s what make pockets of the internet like this (and moments between BE sessions) so much sweeter, because it is a safe, fun, encouraging and empowering place for all mamas, and all women.
Thanks for letting me in on your journey <3 it was such an honor to meet you!
–Paula
Oh yes! Where do I start because there is a list let me tell you.
Every time I got pregnant. “You are having another one?” Really?
I get shame a LOT about my work outs. “Oh well, she does Crossfit so…blah” Really?
I swim and run too..so what. Instead of doing dishes and laundry I choose to leave my house and have some me time. I’m more sane for it.
The fact that I made choices that don’t follow the cultural norm does not invalidate the fact that I had the right to make that choice, or the power of my decision for my family. I am proud of the choices I’ve made and respect others for their choices (made intentionally and with purpose) even if they aren’t exactly the choices that _I_ would make. 🙂
As I’m reading this for Blogmas, I realize that I am sometimes one of those people that says something to the effect of “WOW you have a lot of kids.” And I also realize that I think I do it to make myself feel better about admitting that I can only handle one.
You really gave me perspective. I think sometimes I think of it more as a compliment like, wow – you can handle a lot of kids, but I doubt it always comes across that way. Thank you for this!
This was just one example that stood out to me, as a mother of five, but my experience is women tend to snipe at women about just about ANYTHING. Whatever decision we’ve made for ourselves we are criticized for those decisions. Instead of celebrating that we had the right and ability to make those decisions as strong and empowered women.
My choice to have and raise five kids in no way lessons my having had the ability to make that choice. Dittos for you and whatever choices you’ve made for your life situation and family circumstance. ((hugs)) Thanks for reading and commenting!
I can relate to this one! I have three kids which isn’t “too many.” Well for most people at least it’s not too many. But people want to comment all the time about how close together my kids are. Once when my twins were 1 and my daughter was 2 a stranger said “oh wow, I bet if you knew you were going to have twins you would have waited loner. Better stop having sex, you don’t want triplets.” I just stood there with my mouth hung open in shock. I have many more stories like these. I really wish people understood how rude their comments are and that there are some things you just don’t say in front of children.
ESPECIALLY in front of the kiddos. 🙁
Isn’t it “funny” how these types of remarks affect us? My scenario (the quick version):
I’m in the hospital having baby #4…& the nurses are amazed…
One even had the nerve to say, “same man?”
My droll reply, “yeah, same guy…last time I looked…”